Transcription, Audience du 12 février 2025

Les participants et l'endroit

Tenue à :

Explorer Hotel
4825, 49th avenue
Yellowknife (Territoires du Nord-Ouest)

Participants :

• Présidente de l’audience : Nathalie Théberge
• Membres : Joanne Levy, Conseillère, Manitoba et Saskatchewan
  Nirmala Naidoo, Conseillère, Alberta et Territoires du Nord Ouest
• Conseiller juridique : Samuel Beaumier
• Secrétaire de l’audience : Sonia Gravelle
• Gérante d'audience : Line Joyal

Table des matières

PHASE III

Présentations

900 Shawne Kokelj

916 Thomas McLennan

928 Northern Journalism Training Initiative

1031 Sheila Bassi-Kellett

1059 Gerri Sharpe

1097 Carmen Braden

1193 Yellowknife Direct Charge Co-operative Ltd.

PHASE IV

Répliques

1228 Vista Radio Ltd.

1258 506992 N.W.T. Ltd.

Transcription

Yellowknife (Territoires du Nord-Ouest)
12 février 2025
Ouverture de l'audience à 10 h 00

Yellowknife (Territoires du Nord-Ouest)

‑‑‑ L'audience débute le mercredi 12 février 2025 à 10 h 00

891 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to day two of the public hearing here in Yellowknife. As always, my colleagues and myself are thrilled to be here. I apologize, I'm a little under the weather, so apologies for my sexy voice, but I do have lozenges and honey and everything I need and great colleagues who are going to be able to step up.

892 So today we're going to be listening to Phase III, starting with a presentation by the intervenors. I'm just going to ask our colleague Sonia, the hearing secretary, to take you over how this is all going to unfold. Thank you.

893 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. Welcome. So today we will now begin with Phase III of the hearing, during which the intervenors will present their interventions in the order indicated in the agenda. We will start with the first three intervenors on the agenda, who will be appearing as a panel, Shawne Kokelj, Thomas McLennan, and the Northern Journalism Training Initiative.

894 Please introduce yourselves, and you will then have five minutes each to make your presentations. Thank you.

895 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Madam Secretary.

896 Just a reminder to keep your cellphones on the vibration mode and, like yesterday, the only person who can make a noise is Cabin Baby in the back. So same rules apply.

897 So we're going to start with Panel 1, and I will turn it over to Shawne Kokelj for the five‑minute presentation. We'll go one after the other, and then I'll turn things over to my colleague Commissioner Levy, who will be leading the question period, if that works for everyone. Please.

898 MS. KOKELJ: Just as an introduction to myself, I'd like to acknowledge that today's hearing is being held on Chief Drygeese Territory in the traditional home of the Yellowknives Dene First Nation and the North Slave Métis.

899 I'm here today to express my support to Cabin Radio's application for an FM licence, and my name is Shawne Kokelj, and I've been a resident of Yellowknife since 1999. I've been a financial supporter of Cabin Radio's online and social media presence for several years.

Presentation

900 MS. KOKELJ: So to begin my presentation, since 2018, Cabin Radio has stood out as a local business that has excelled at representing other local businesses, culture, politics, and sports in addition to compassionately guiding Yellowknife through multiple crisis events. Cabin Radio has developed and broadcast events that bring together community, raise awareness of need, and are just plain fun. Examples include duck races, live broadcasts of Halloween trick‑or‑treating, and the annual Christmas parade.

901 In 2020, at a time when there was a lot of fear, misinformation, and uncertainty, Cabin Radio and Ollie Williams' daily COVID Corner served as a regular touchstone which many people relied on for accurate information, with both politicians and senior administrators participating in live online broadcasts. COVID Corner provided a sense of community while folks were confined to their homes, as well as a bit of levity. It felt like a giant collective hug that helped hold everyone together in a place that was a bit less scary. I will always be grateful for those online broadcasts and only wish that they had had greater distribution via FM radio. There should have been easy access to this informative journalism that provided essential information to the public on a daily basis along with a dose of a smile.

902 Prior to my retirement this past September as a hydrologist with the Government of the Northwest Territories, I was part of a small team responsible for providing as much clear, accurate, plain language information to the public concerning the record high and low water levels experienced across the NWT over the past several years. Media interviews with Ollie Williams and Cabin Radio helped to clearly relay information to the public. Ongoing coverage of our team's spring breakup and monthly bulletins helps keep Yellowknifers informed of territorial water level conditions on which so many are heavily dependent. Ideally, these and other interviews of strong interest to Yellowknifers would be more readily available to a wider swath of the public via FM radio.

903 Cabin Radio again demonstrated their absolute dedication to the people of Yellowknife during the unprecedented fire season of the summer of 2023, and in particular, during the chaos that unfolded in August when the majority of the territory's population and the entirety of Yellowknife, Ndilo, Dettah, and the Ingraham Trail were evacuated due to numerous encroaching wildfires.

904 During this chaotic period, it would have been extremely useful for residents to have easier access to Cabin Radio's valuable information via FM radio, as many were scrambling to protect nearby cabins, driving around town to prepare for evacuation, choosing what precious items to pack, fire‑smarting homes, et cetera. I know that we, as a family, and many, many others relied on Cabin Radio for coverage of all aspects of the evacuation throughout August and September. But again, access to the information via FM would have facilitated and enhanced communication at this time of crisis, particularly given the demonstrated vulnerability of telecommunications in the North.

905 I would like to again specifically note that while Cabin Radio has carried us through many crises, there is always a happy story component that helps to get folks through the day, regardless of the stress that they may be encountering. They are able to deliver information in a manner that is palatable and heartwarming as listeners and readers know that Cabin Radio owners and staff are also in the North, experiencing the same challenges along with community members. Local ownership and presence have ensured that decisions made regarding content and perspective has strong relevance and value to northerners.

906 Cabin Radio also has an incredible knack of making many groups, regardless of their membership size, feel important. Equal amounts of enthusiasm are provided to small sport, NGO, and cultural groups as larger ones, enriching the experience of all who live in Yellowknife.

907 Coverage of local events and/or achievements by northerners mean that locals see themselves in the news. Local role models are placed in front of us. I can assure you this is extremely important for the development of capacity and confidence‑building. Locals learn of opportunities that are available to them, what others have achieved, and what is possible.

908 In conclusion, I believe it has been clearly demonstrated that, since 2018, Yellowknife's economy can support a second FM station. There have been both businesses and individuals who have already been supporting and contributing financially to the existence of Cabin Radio for years, and the granting of an FM licence to Cabin Radio should not endanger the ongoing health of the existing FM station here in town. In addition, locally situated Cabin Radio owners and several employees contribute to the economy of the local community.

909 Granting an FM licence to Cabin Radio would allow for greater and more convenient broadcast presence for a broader spectrum of Yellowknife's population who are unable to access the Internet or cannot, for a variety of reasons, stream it in real time. Having a spot on the FM dial would greatly expand access in this northern environment where unlimited, easy, and inexpensive access to the Internet cannot be assumed.

910 There are complex and unique perspectives in this multicultural community, and I feel strongly that a federal agency such as the CRTC has a duty to closely listen to the voices of this community. I sincerely hope that the CRTC respects and responds to the wishes of Yellowknifers by approving Cabin Radio's FM application, thereby supporting public interest in this matter.

911 Thank you so much for having this hearing here in Yellowknife, for your time and attention, and for allowing me to speak here today. Thank you.

912 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ms. Kokelj, and congratulations on your retirement.

913 So I'll turn it over to Mr. McLennan, please. Introduce yourselves, and please proceed.

914 MR. McLENNAN: Thank you very much.

915 Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you for being here in Yellowknife. My name is Tom McLennan. I'm a resident to Yellowknife and a city councillor. Just to be clear, I'd like to state that I'm here today speaking for myself and in no way for the City of Yellowknife or for Council. And I'll begin with my presentation.

Presentation

916 MR. McLENNAN: I would like to voice my support for Cabin Radio's application for an FM radio licence and my strong belief that this licence would be significantly beneficial for the communities of Yellowknife, Ndilo, Dettah, and the NWT as a whole.

917 In my written submission, I discussed four reasons why I support Cabin Radio's FM licence submission. First, Cabin is the most trusted source for local news and information. Second, given the previous fact, adding Cabin Radio to FM would expand access and engagement to local content for underserved segments of the population as well as residents generally. Third, Cabin's work was invaluable to residents during the 2023 wildfires, and given the North's fragile communications infrastructure, more points of access to this work is critical. Finally, as a politician, I greatly value the service Cabin provides in fostering public engagement on governmental processes and policy.

918 In my remarks today, I'll provide additional context to my written submission regarding what further value Cabin would bring to the FM dial in Yellowknife and how valuable a service they provide in critical moments for the community.

919 I mentioned in my written statement, but I'll mention it here again, Cabin Radio is the primary and most trusted local source for news and information in Yellowknife. This specific focus on local news and events in Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories is what sets Cabin Radio apart and what is currently missing on the FM dial. If I want to hear the occasional local story, I can tune in to True North. If I want an excellent look at news and events from across all three territories, I can listen to CBC North. If I want great music as well as news and events focused on Indigenous communities in the Northwest Territories, I can listen to CKLB. However, if I want to get the pulse of Yellowknife and the NWT as a whole, if I want to know what matters to me as a resident, and if I want to know what I can get up to this weekend, I need to go to CabinRadio.ca.

920 I was extremely excited yesterday to hear that, once granted an FM licence, Cabin Radio intends to extend their spoken‑word content and in‑depth local reporting. As a resident and as a local politician, I know this will be substantially beneficial in terms of public engagement and local knowledge. Legislation and government processes can be confusing and challenging to distill into easily digestible segments. I spend time each week trying to understand government policy and trying to determine how best to explain this policy to the public. Beyond my staff memos, the most efficient and effective way for me to refresh my memory around a certain issue is to reference Cabin Radio's reporting. Beyond staff memos, the most efficient and effective way for me to get a general sense of how best to explain an issue to the public is by referencing Cabin Radio's reporting. While I also do reference CBC North's work, my first stop is always Cabin Radio. This is an example of the unique value Cabin Radio brings to the community and would bring to the FM dial in Ndilo, Dettah, and Yellowknife. I know many residents also rely on this reporting just as I do.

921 In terms of critical moments for the community and Cabin Radio, I'd like to add a short story. This story is to highlight the differences between Cabin Radio and the existing FM stations in Yellowknife and the critical value Cabin can and does provide in these moments. My father lives in central Ontario, a couple hours north of Toronto, where I grew up. Earlier this winter, the region received over a hundred centimetres of snow in a couple days, shutting down the main central highway, the main transportation corridor as well as power. The only local radio stations, including CBC, are repeaters of stations found and focused in larger population centres. These local stations continued to play normal programming. Crucial information like is the highway open, what groceries or fuel are available, and when can we expect more information was difficult to impossible to find. Afterwards, he called me and expressed that he wished he was able to tune in to an FM station like Cabin Radio. After following their coverage of the 2023 wildfires from afar, he knew how effective they were at compiling and disseminating crucial information in difficult circumstances.

922 Yellowknife and the NWT have an advantage. We have an organization that is dedicated to the community and that has proven time and time again they are the most effective provider of local information. CBC North, CKLB, and True North are assets to our community; however, their focus is either more broad than truly local or their resources for local content are limited. I believe that Cabin Radio and True North serve different markets within Yellowknife and that Cabin Radio fills a role not currently served on FM in Yellowknife.

923 For these reasons, I'm strongly in favour of Cabin Radio obtaining an FM radio licence. For anyone who actually lives in Yellowknife, Ndilo, or Dettah, this decision is obvious.

924 Thank you for your time, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

925 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. McLennan.

926 I'll turn it over now to Northern Journalism Training Initiative, who is represented, I guess, by Ms. Kaila Jefferd‑Moore. I hope I pronounced your name correctly. The floor is to you for your presentation.

927 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: Thank you. I would like to start by introducing myself. My name is Kaila Jefferd‑Moore. I am a Haida woman and a Canadian journalist. I grew up in Inuvik on the homelands of the Inuvialuit and Gwich'in people and I now call Somba K'e or Yellowknife my home since January 2020. I've worked and been published as a journalist since 2015, including with Northern News Services Limited, CBC North, and Up Here magazine. And I'm now the project director of the Northern Journalism Training Initiative, which I'm here representing today. Into my remarks.

Presentation

928 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: The Northern Journalism Training Initiative, which I'll refer to as NJTI throughout the rest of my presentation, because it is a mouthful, is a homegrown project of the MakeWay Charitable Society shared platform. We are northern. We were started by northern and Indigenous journalists, and we plan to or we do serve, provide journalism opportunities to Indigenous and northern people because our approach is to offer it in a way that respects and genuinely represents the perspectives and the life of Indigenous and northern people here in our territory. We exist to amplify the voices of the North and prepare them for futures engaging in media and communication. We exist because of people like me who had to leave the North to pursue opportunity in this industry. NJTI represents the specific interest of a growing journalism ecosystem in the North, particularly to see more local Indigenous and northern journalists in the ecosystem.

929 Our interest in the outcome of this hearing is to see Cabin Radio, a locally owned and operated newsroom, grow and sustain its existing presence in the North by receiving an FM licence to broadcast in Yellowknife, Dettah, and Ndilo area.

930 We're a relatively new organization on the scene, but one of our first steps was to reach out to local organizations, particularly news rooms, to see what the local scene was about. This included Cabin Radio. We advocate for these employers to invest in the development of local talent and support the unique challenges that community‑based and Indigenous reporters face in the industry from bias in reporting to accommodating status quo practices.

931 Cabin Radio is a standout in support and engagement with our work. We have seen them actively pursue and offer annual internships and opportunities for northerners and Indigenous people to explore journalism as a future career and gain the tools they need to tell their community stories. During our pilot training program, editor Ollie Williams volunteered to guest lecture on community‑based reporting, particularly for their expertise in consistent coverage of ongoing municipal politics, particularly town council meetings.

932 In the summer of 2023, our relationship with Cabin Radio grew when they took the initiative to reach out to us to collaborate on supporting their new hire of a new‑to‑the‑industry young Indigenous person in their newsroom. They had passion and ideas, and they needed a little bit more support, and we were there. This is another example of witnessing Ollie and the Cabin Radio's team to be flexible, a willingness to learn, and accommodating the unique needs that I believe is achieved from being locally owned and operated. They have the ability to implement instant feedback.

933 It's also an example of the collaborative nature that NJTI is trying to achieve in the media and communications ecosystem to see this industry thrive and see a motivated and engaged citizenship that are contributing to the news as well as consuming it.

934 We have also seen this in Cabin Radio's reliable coverage of a range of topics from politics and the economy to climate change, the arts, health care, transportation, education, and events and celebrations around the territory that are just plain fun. And our 2023‑2024 Media Monitoring Report published on our website found that Cabin Radio produced significantly more news content ‑‑ 46 per cent of 300 articles surveyed ‑‑ than the other four news organizations included in the survey.

935 Part of the reason we do the work that we do at NJTI is because we value being northern‑made and supporting the local economy. We're a small non‑profit organization with limited advertising dollars, and so when we have them to spend, we would choose to spend them in a place where we know that the revenue is continuing to feed back into our local economy, especially an outlet that is producing original and quality news.

936 I have a personal interest and investment in seeing a flourishing news ecosystem as well. I'm a journalist, but I'm also a member of this community. I am a Yellowknifer. When I've left comments or shared feedback where I have noticed or have perceived gaps in Cabin Radio's coverage, Ollie Williams has always reached out to me to accept further feedback and immediately implement, if it's within the news room's ability. This level of instant feedback and response to the community builds trust and a sense of community ownership in the news process that I believe is fundamental to a democratic society.

937 I again thank the Commission for inviting me to present on behalf of the Northern Journalism Training Initiative in support of Cabin Radio's application for an FM licence in the Yellowknife, Dettah, and Ndilo area. I raise my hands to the work of the Commission and to the work of journalists in this territory contributing to a healthy and ethical industry. Please say yes to Cabin Radio's application for an FM licence so that this organization can continue their service and contribution to our community far into the future.

938 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, and again thank you to the three of you for being here today with us and for your presentations. I will turn the floor to my colleague Commissioner Levy, who is the Commissioner for Manitoba and Saskatchewan, and she will lead the question period.

939 Commissioner Levy?

940 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Thank you.

941 And thank you for your presentations. Full disclosure: I am a former journalist myself, as is my colleague Commissioner Naidoo. So we have a certain sympathy for the situation you find yourselves in as people who are passionate about local journalism, which is a fixation of all of us at the CRTC as well, because we know how very important that is to communities across the country as well as here in Yellowknife.

942 I'd like to start with Ms. Kokelj. So you've lived in Yellowknife for a long time. You've been a scientist here for your majority of your career, most of your career. Can you talk about current coverage of territorial issues and science reporting specifically on the radio in Yellowknife?

943 MS. KOKELJ: I wouldn't want to address too much that isn't within my area of expertise, but certainly, water has been ‑‑ water quantity is what as a hydrologist was my area of expertise. And we have seen incredible conditions over the past five, six years that have not been experienced before. There have been massive quantities of questions, of course. We went from relatively low levels to absolute record high levels and then within a couple years record low levels. So we haven't seen anything like that before.

944 People have questions. So much of our community depends on these things, whether it's accessing cabins, their activities on the lake, on the land, you know, on the land‑water for fishing, for accessing trap lines, for a variety of reasons, hydroelectrical generation, transportation. The entire shipping season down the Mackenzie River by barge was suspended last year. That is a multi‑million‑dollar problem. So a lot of attention was being paid and questions asked to us.

945 I have found that it's not always easy to provide scientific explanation in a clear manner, understandably, and any interviews or conversations I've had with Cabin Radio, when I see the end product in print or have listened to the interview afterward, I have always been impressed with the thoroughness and yet the clarity in trying to explain the issues and the questions that the public have in helping to explain the situation. I'll stop there.

946 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Okay. No, I'm interested because obviously this is a new and breaking area of not just interest but of vital importance to people in this region. And I'm interested in how that gets covered because I'm assuming that you yourself have been interviewed several times on this subject. And having been around Yellowknife, it’s not just transportation. So I gather there’s some people actually live on the water, so that must be a huge issue.

947 And as we have expanded our interests in expanding broadband through our broadband fund, we’ve learned the importance of the sealift every year for getting infrastructure and materials to places that need to expand and need them vitally, so it’s a surprise to me to hear that a whole season was disrupted. That must really hurt.

948 And what ‑‑ so what difference do you believe that it would make to have Cabin Radio on FM as opposed to continuing on the internet, especially ‑‑ can you talk a little bit more about the importance that you can see them having during emergencies in particular?

949 MS. KOKELJ: I think I addressed that in my presentation.

950 Not everybody has satellite radios in their vehicles. I want to turn it on and have access to Cabin Radio as I am in my vehicle and potentially ‑‑ as in the crisis situation in 2023, I was not able to do so and to have that easy access to it. And again, I think we need to fully understand that inexpensive, reliable internet is a privilege and it’s not available to everybody and that this information is not available on FM, which is free and much more easily accessible, is a bit shocking, quite frankly.

951 The ‑‑ if for no other reason than to have the option to have that available to you, for us, that would have meant easier access to information from our cabin, access from the vehicle while we were running around like chickens with our heads cut off trying to prep everything. While you are out in the yard fire smarting, you know, you can have ‑‑ just turn on your radio and have that available to you. And I think that would have made a big difference for ‑‑ as well as during COVID.

952 Like these were essential pieces of information that were being relayed by, you know, our highest level politicians and administrator ‑‑ administrators. That should have been available free on FM, is my feeling.

953 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Okay, great. Thank you.

954 Does the ‑‑ moving on to Mr. McLennan, how much does the City of Yellowknife rely on radio currently to share information?

955 MR. McLENNAN: Tough for me to speak directly to how city staff choose to communicate, but I will reflect on a couple different issues. One specifically is snow removal in Yellowknife and the changes in our winters, either getting much more snow earlier or getting very cold earlier.

956 There was a particular interview with our Director of Public Works with Cabin Radio where he had a conversation with Ollie, and this was sort of transcribed onto the website, that explained very well the practicalities of how the city needs to respond to these changes in weather and the effects that that has, and that interview and that sort of conversation did amazing things in terms of communicating those practicalities to residents.

957 Having ‑‑ being able to have that conversation not only in a text forum online that is available to some people but on the radio to listen to, I think, would be able to expand the city’s ability to communicate the practical aspects of addressing residents’ concerns and needs, and that’s just one particular example of, I think, how Cabin Radio on FM would expand the city’s ability to communicate and engage with residents.

958 COMMISSIONER LEVY: But there's another radio station, Vista, is here in the community and does do local news and so forth. What’s the difference?

959 MR. McLENNAN: That that interview and conversation happened with Cabin Radio, that I’m not sure exactly the specifics of how that was facilitated or it came about, but it came about with Cabin Radio. It didn’t come about on True North FM.

960 COMMISSIONER LEVY: I know that you made a point of saying that you're here in sort of your personal capacity. You’re not speaking for the City of Yellowknife. However, I’m going to ask you whether you are aware of how regularly the city advertises on radio. Like do you ‑‑ as a municipal entity, how much do you rely on advertising to get the word out?

961 MR. McLENNAN: I'm not specifically aware of the city's advertising patterns, no.

962 COMMISSIONER LEVY: And so just to go back to contrast and so forth, the applications both have a place for spoken word and for news proper and in terms of news specifically, there is quite a difference in the offer in the two applications. Does that concern you at all?

963 MR. McLENNAN: No. The ‑‑ I think one moment that stood out to me in the presentations yesterday was in Vista Radio’s presentation talking about if they got a second station, their first action would be to connect with the community to learn what information they were looking for and looking for ways to expand their source list and abilities to communicate information.

964 Those things exist at Cabin Radio. They know what the community’s looking for, they know the information the community’s looking for. They have the ability to get that information and get it to the public quickly. In terms of overall percentages or specific quantities, I know that I go to Cabin Radio to get local news. I don’t turn on True North FM, and I know that to be true of many residents.

965 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Thank you.

966 Turning now to the Northern Journalism Training Initiative, which sounds quite fascinating, actually, and I give you kudos for a homegrown initiative that’s very focused on trying to train more journalists in a pretty challenging area for all kinds of reasons, both technical and physical and all of the rest of it.

967 So what do you think ‑‑ what do you think of the current state of the number of journalists that there are working in the territory and Yellowknife specifically?

968 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: Well, I hold the belief that we can always have more perspectives and more stories being told. Resoundingly, I hear often that there’s a barrier in funding and being able to like pay equitable and like, frankly, good and attractive salaries, and so I hear that often as a challenge with recruitment and retention.

969 In terms of where it’s at now, it could absolutely use a lot more journalists. I think there are a few vacancies right now in the north more broadly and, in particular, I think there could be a lot more Indigenous voices in this space and local northerners in this space.

970 COMMISSIONER LEVY: How many do you propose to provide or train?

971 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: We accept 12 participants in each of our cohorts. We’re about to redeliver for the second time in Hay River this spring, and so we’re not purporting to be anywhere near a university level program or graduating 30 people annually, but yeah, our first cohort was nine people and this time we’ve accepted 12, so we’ll see how that goes.

972 COMMISSIONER LEVY: How are you finding recruiting participants?

973 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: How am I finding them or how am I finding the like active recruitment?

974 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Do you have a lot of take‑up? Is there a lot of enthusiasm for the program?

975 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: Yeah, there is a lot of enthusiasm for the program.

976 Again, attending our program, the monetary aspect is truly a barrier. It’s so expensive to run programming in the north. It’s expensive to hire. And so our idea is that by training folks who live in communities on the ground, you know, there’s no moving costs or travel costs. You know, we don’t have to worry about sending our reporters from Yellowknife to Hay River. We’ve got some folks in Hay River on the ground.

977 So we find recruitment, like there’s tons of enthusiasm. All of the like local publications have various levels of support for us and we have various relationships with them.

978 And people of all ages are applying for our program. We’re inter‑generational. We accept anyone from 18 and older, and we have folks who are 50 applying to our program, so we have young people who are 18 who are like hungry and have passion and are like, “I’ve got a story to tell”, and we also have middle‑aged and seniors being like, “I’m also hungry and I have a story to tell and I want to reflect my community and I want to see it done in the news”.

979 And it’s just ‑‑ it’s so exciting to work with those folks and know that we have the talent and we have the ideas and we have the people in the territory. We really just need to support them to access these opportunities and take down barriers, whether it’s offering positions as full‑time or part‑time or more casual so that we can meet our community members where they’re at currently. That’s really, really important to us.

980 COMMISSIONER LEVY: What would an additional FM station mean for some of these aspiring journalists?

981 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: They get on the air, they get to share their stories in a new medium, in a new platform. And I think having another avenue to do so is always a net positive for the news ecosystem.

982 COMMISSIONER LEVY: And I just want to follow up on something you said in your presentation that your initiative arose because there was a desire to create a homegrown training program for journalists who could represent and speak about the life of Indigenous peoples. And I wonder if you can concretely give us some examples of what that actually means. Like what is it about news and journalism from an Indigenous perspective that we might otherwise be missing?

983 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: Employing them. It truly is that simple.

984 I’m an Indigenous person. Regardless of what story I’m reporting in, it’s an Indigenous perspective because I am Indigenous person. And so it’s not about pigeonholing us into only talking about our cultures and, you know, Duncan McHughes’ four Ds. It's not about that. It’s about simply having us in the room and having the lived experience of being a northern, of being an Indigenous person.

985 You can teach the skills of using a camera, using Audacity, learning how to interview and create your cue line. Those are tangible skills that can be taught. The experience of growing up in Inuvik or Behchoko or Deline is so different than the experience of growing up in Ontario, going to Ryerson University, and then coming up here.

986 And that’s not to knock the hard and good work that those folks are doing in our communities. They are still doing good work, but it’s a different perspective that you’re going to get from someone who’s like, well, I know that they’re doing that because I grew up with them and this is X, Y, Z. That’s like the rich context of local community news that I think Cabin provides.

987 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Thank you very much. That’s it for me.

988 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: Thank you.

989 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Commissioner Levy.

990 I know my colleague, Commissioner Naidoo, who’s the Commissioner for Northwest Territories and Alberta, has some questions, please.

991 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Thank you very much, Vice‑Chair Theberge.

992 So I just had a few questions. Commissioner Levey did a great job of covering off all the topics.

993 I was going to ask Thomas, I wanted to know a little bit ‑‑ you had mentioned in your presentation that Cabin Radio, in your view, is more focused in its coverage while some of the other stations in the market, you had said, were more, I think you had said, too broad. And I’m wondering if you can flesh that out a little bit, maybe give us an example of what you mean.

994 MR. McLENNAN: For sure, yeah.

995 CBC North does a great job and I guess it's commercial versus sort of government broadcaster, but I guess an example would be in the morning I sort of have coffee and I have breakfast and I go to Cabinradio.ca and I take a look and it’s all stories about NWT and mostly Yellowknife area. Very specific ones about an event that happened on the weekend, the bridge is back open to two‑lane traffic, this sort of thing.

996 My next step is to go to the CBC News app and I go to the local section and the stories, it’s about like one in three are about the Northwest Territories, and not ‑‑ occasionally, one is about Yellowknife. So I sort of need to ‑‑ it’s interesting to see what’s going on in the Yukon and in Nunavut, of course, but I need to scroll through to find the local stories, whereas Cabin Radio and if I was able to listen to that on FM, it would be nice to look out at the lake and listen to that instead of staring at my phone in the morning.

997 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Thank you. I really appreciate that. That gives us more of a context behind that.

998 I’m going to ask this question of each of you, and so I’m going to start with you, Thomas, since I’m already with you here.

999 And the question was basically ‑‑ because we asked both applicants this question, I think it’s good to get some feedback from the community. What would be ‑‑ what do you think would happen if both stations were granted licences?

1000 MR. McLENNAN: It's an interesting question.

1001 I think that Vista Radio and Cabin Radio serve different markets within Yellowknife. It would ‑‑ three different stations, like two new ones, is interesting to consider. Yeah, I think they serve different segments of the population. People would choose to listen to different ones and advertise with different ones.

1002 Yeah, I’ll repeat again that I think Cabin Radio would be the most trusted one in terms of local news and information, and that’s the one I would go to as a local politician to express my views on topics and/or, yeah, research the history behind issues.

1003 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Do you think that there would be a benefit or do you think there would be a detriment or do you think you’re indifferent?

1004 And I know that I’m just springing this question on you on the fly, so if you ‑‑ you know, if you’re unable to answer it, it’s fine.

1005 MR. McLENNAN: I think, what I will say is like from my opinion as a resident of nine years and as a local politician, the most beneficial decision the Commission can make in regards to the community of Yellowknife is to grant Cabin Radio an FM licence.

1006 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Thank you very much.

1007 All right. Same question for Shawne. Do you mind?

1008 MS. KOKELJ: I'm going to sneak in just an end bit to one of your questions, if that’s okay.

1009 Just sitting here reflecting on what you were asking about, media coverage of some of the science ‑‑ water science‑related items, I can’t recall in the past five or six years of various drought and flood conditions a one‑on‑one interview with Vista, so ‑‑ whereas there’s been many with Cabin Radio. So in terms of coverage and understanding, it’s hard to understand something that’s not there, right.

1010 In response to your question, I would suggest that alternative viewpoints and perspectives enrich a community and I think both are valuable and it’s always welcome to have both and it’s good for both. Yellowknifers have asked for this choice overwhelmingly. I can’t believe the number of people who took the time to look up who the speakers actually were, saw my name and have reached out to me because I wasn’t necessarily going around telling people. But people in huge numbers have reached out.

1011 People are interested. They want this very badly.

1012 And competition is healthy, and I think given that Cabin Radio has existed as a presence since 2018, I think there’s the demonstrated capacity for the community to support both.

1013 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: I really appreciate that. Thank you very much.

1014 And finally, Kaila.

1015 MS. JEFFERD‑MOORE: I ‑‑ as I mentioned earlier, I think the more opportunity for northerners to share their voice and be heard on the news is a net positive for this territory. The benefit I see in two licences being granted is great, potentially more opportunities to send the participants from our training to and more partnerships to work with.

1016 And I will also add, I think a little bit of competition is healthy and the two organizations gently pushing each other to do better. And I think that is just a net positive.

1017 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Thank you very much. And those are all my questions.

1018 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Commissioner Naidoo.

1019 Thank you to the three of you for your presentations, your generosity, also. This makes us better understand the broader context in which we have to evaluate both applications, so we thank you very much.

1020 We’re going to take a five‑minute break and then ‑‑ to allow our friends from panel number 2 to come at the table so we can continue this hearing.

1021 Thank you again, and safe travels.

‑‑‑ Suspension à 10 h 45

‑‑‑ Reprise à 10 h 51

1022 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will ask everyone to please take your seats. We will start soon. Thank you.

1023 Please take your seats so we can start.

1024 MS. SHARPE: Time to sit down, everyone.

1025 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

1026 So moving right along with Panel No. 2, I will turn it over to our Hearing Secretary for the presentation of the nice people we have in front of us.

1027 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. We will now hear the presentations of the next three intervenors on the agenda, who will also be appearing as a panel: Sheila Bassi‑Kellett, Gerri Sharpe and Carmen Braden.

1028 You will each have five minutes for your presentation after you have introduced yourself.

1029 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much. As just explained, you will be asked to do your presentation, and then I will turn things over to my colleague, Commissioner Levy, who will be leading the question period, and my colleague, Commissioner Naidoo, and myself may have questions as well.

1030 So, we will start with Mrs. Sheila Bassi‑Kellett, please. The floor is yours.

Presentation

1031 MRS. BASSI‑KELLETT: Thank you very much, and good morning, Commissioners and Commission staff.

1032 My name is Sheila Bassi‑Kellett, and I am intervening today in favour of the application being made by 506992 N.W.T. Ltd., known as Cabin Radio.

1033 I am a 38‑year resident of the Northwest Territories, having lived in both Yellowknife and Tulita, which is a beautiful remote community on the McKenzie River at the confluence of the Bear and McKenzie Rivers.

1034 I’ve worked for the Government of the Northwest Territories, the City of Yellowknife, the Hamlet of Tulita, briefly for the federal government, and also for the private sector. I am a former Deputy Minister, a former City Manager for the City of Yellowknife, and also, my most proud of being a former waitress at the Gold Range Bar here in Yellowknife.

1035 I now consult privately, I cross‑country ski daily, and I play the ukelele badly.

1036 Northerners rely on a variety of media to remain informed about local, national and international news. We read online news sources and use social media. However, we rely on radio as the foundational source of news updates, given the challenges for reliable and accessible internet across most parts of the North. This is not just a small community issue. It’s an issue in Yellowknife as well, given the lack of redundancy for fibreoptic internet access and the way that we live.

1037 On a related note, I’m sure you’ve witnessed the break in our cellular service yesterday. So, this is very real.

1038 FM radio is still a critically important source of information for Yellowknifers. I listen in the mornings. It’s on in my vehicle. We listen at regular times. You get the picture.

1039 Cabin provides well‑researched analytical news for the NWT and does not use canned news about issues from other parts of Canada. Cabin has built a reputation over the past seven‑plus years of providing relevant, thoughtful, analytical and balanced journalism on issues across the North.

1040 They don’t take local stories from elsewhere in Canada and merely spit them out again here for Northerners. They don’t take media releases and simply post the content without bringing an additional broader perspective to the story.

1041 Now, as a former City Manager when I was in that role, I didn’t always love Cabin’s stories about the city. I’m not going to lie. But I respected that they would be well researched, truthful and objective.

1042 And the reason I didn’t like them is because they would cause a bit of a ruckus for me to have to deal with after the fact. But that was my reality.

1043 But on the flip side, I have to say there were times when Cabin’s objective reporting shut down fabricated drama in social media on city issues. And I have to say their coverage on the stinky tap water pseudo issue in the spring of 2024 still warms my cold, cold heart.

1044 Northerners need timely, reliable, accessible local news, particularly during emergencies. During floods and wildfires, which are becoming more and more commonplace, information is critical for people to stay informed and make wise choices. Most news outlets in the NWT work Monday to Friday and don’t have dedicated resources on the ground who can keep Northerners informed of rapidly changing conditions.

1045 Cabin has proven to be tireless during emergencies over the past five‑plus years, from COVID closures and precautions to the status of rising flood waters as a result of ice‑jammed rivers, to the ferocious approach of wildfires towards communities.

1046 If there was a development, Northerners now take for granted that Cabin will be reporting on it and posting on their website. Northerners do not rely on other news outlets to the same degree, if at all.

1047 And with Meta blocking news information feeds on social media platforms and no longer fact checking, the access people have is even more limited now.

1048 As you’ve heard from other interventions, Cabin was a critical player in relaying and amplifying information to Yellowknife evacuees during the 2023 wildfires and evacuation.

1049 And a big issue that I spent a lot of time dealing with in my role as City Manager at the time during that emergency was the poor communication and lack of clarity on roles and responsibilities between the GNWT and the City of Yellowknife. Cabin was invaluable in triangulating information from both governments, along with crowd sourced updates coming from Northerners themselves, given the number of followers who reached out to Cabin to share information on things like smoke and road conditions during the evacuation, fuel availability and in one memorable incident, at least to me, from inside a confidential GNWT city meeting regarding when the evacuation order would be lifted.

1050 Imagine my shock at finding out that Cabin had inside knowledge from someone in that room, who had called them after that meeting. It’s pretty cool, actually.

1051 Throughout, the city was able to rely on Cabin to get our information out ASAP during this very stressful time when evacuees were hungry for accurate updates from home, and to combine it with other sources for the most accurate updates possible.

1052 Now, Cabin itself can be newsworthy, especially when so many Yellowknifers want to see Cabin get its FM licence.

1053 So, I’m part of a small group of friends with ukeleles. We gather regularly to play our instruments badly. We sing offkey, and we generally enjoy how goofy these instruments really are. We jam rock classics, we have holiday theme songs, and we’ve hosted singalongs at a local festival. Occasionally, we perform songs that one of our members, Kate Hearn in the audience today, our very own Northern “Weird Al” Yankovic, proud to call her ‑‑ Kate revises the lyrics for some songs, creating parodies of local events and issues.

1054 So, for example, we have celebrated our Chief Medical Health Officer during COVID. We sang a tribute to her. We implemented the impact of the carbon tax. We’ve marked the 30th anniversary of an annual medieval pig roast. Yea, Yellowknife! And yes, we have advocated for Cabin to be granted an FM licence.

1055 We recorded Airwaves for FM earlier this year. It’s a musical parody of that iconic rock anthem Stairway to Heaven, with the lyrics changed to support an FM licence for Cabin. The full video and lyrics have been provided to you for your review ‑‑ I won’t say enjoyment ‑‑ and I truly hope you enjoyed it as much as Jimmy Page appeared to in the video itself.

1056 So in closing, I would like to thank the CRTC for considering the magnitude of support that Yellowknifers and Northerners show for Cabin as you assess the merit of their application for the FM licence. We listen to Cabin. We rely on Cabin. We support Cabin. We need Cabin on the FM dial. Mahsi. Thank you.

1057 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. I was surprised to see Jimmy Page, I have to say. But thank you for providing the information to all of us. I think my colleagues and I all saw the video, so thank you very much.

1058 I will turn things over to Ms. Gerri Sharpe for a quick five‑minute presentation, please.

Presentation

1059 MS. SHARPE: Qujannamiik. Ublakut. Geraldine Sharpe. Nuuyunga Uqsuqtuuqmit. Kisiani tamaani Yellowknifemi nuunaktuunga manna.

1060 My name is Gerri Sharpe. Good morning and thank you for having me here. I’m originally from Gjoa Haven. I am Inuuk. I do now live here in Yellowknife.

1061 I’m the eldest daughter of David Sharpe and Maudie Qitsualik. My mother is the eldest daughter of Gideon Qitsualik, who had 17 children. Gideon Qitsualik was a leader to Inuit across the North, travelling by dog team from Pond Inlet to Aklavik and back many times as a minister and a leader. He also took part in negotiations when land claims started for Nunavut. My mother was a translator‑interpreter, one of the best for Inuktitut, translating and interpreting for medical and legal words that didn’t exist in Inuktitut. She helped bridge the understanding for Inuit. To this day, people have come to me and told me how great she was.

1062 I tell you my history and my lineage as this is the Inuuk way. By doing so, I tell people where my knowledge comes from and my experience, and there is an unspoken understanding. This also communicates family ties and gives respect to my elders, as well as my mother’s family.

1063 According to Inuit ways, from my grandfather, at least, my brother absorbed my non‑Inuuk blood and I his Inuuk blood, and this is the way that he and I were treated our entire lives, and this is the way that we acted.

1064 I’ve been a bridge to understanding Inuit ways for this because of this and for non‑Inuits since I was very young. I’ve helped people understand and also helped my community by bridging that information.

1065 I’m a mother, a grandmother, a traditional Inuuk artist and an advocate for women’s rights and Inuit rights.

1066 In my lifetime, I’ve been a member of the following boards: the Inuvik Transition House for seven years; the Inuvik District Education Authority for five years; the NWT Status of Women Council for five years, three of which I was President; NWT Council of Persons With Disabilities; the NWT Human Rights Commission for five years; Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada for five years, two of which I was VP and two of which I was President.

1067 I am the recipient of the NWT Premier’s Award for the cultural safety work and being part of the GNWT’s Living Well Together Cultural Awareness Series.

1068 This does not take into account the numerous community activities that I’ve helped with, more times than not with Gail Cyr, who is Jesse Wheeler’s mother that you heard about yesterday, whom I called a close friend and was also a fellow Human Rights Commissioner. And before that, she and I took part planning things in Yellowknife, such as Yellowknife Walking With Our Sisters Installation series, as well as giving testimony together at the Yellowknife MMIWG inquiry that took place.

1069 For more than 30 years, we worked as advocates for the same cause, starting when I was President for the Status of Women Council for the Northwest Territories, and she was doing work for the NWT Native Women’s Association. She and I were, are also students of residential school.

1070 We do have a generational gap, as she is my mother’s age, who also attended residential school. We understand the cultural needs.

1071 I’ve travelled the world representing Inuit women and speaking for them. I have been to the UN in New York, New Zealand, Greenland and all across Canada. It is not the Inuuk way to praise the work that one has done for themselves, but as you can see, this is not an Inuuk panel. Therefore, it is necessary to understand where my knowledge comes from and why I will speak the way that I’m speaking.

1072 I’m here to speak in favour of Cabin Radio’s application for an FM licence. From a cultural perspective, it has been my experience that Cabin Radio is not only aware of the cultural diversity of the Northwest Territories and Yellowknife, Cabin Radio works to ensure others are aware of cultural diversity and take great effort to be culturally safe and relevant. This is a step towards reconciliation.

1073 Yesterday, I heard you speak quite a bit about the diverse needs of women and LGBT2QQIA, as well as language. That all encompasses reconciliation. The work of reconciliation means everyone works for this to give a better understanding of what has happened in the past, that has caused the wrongs to happen, and work to overcome them together. This work is done by everyone and is not to be led by Indigenous people and putting all the work on them. This work is collective from the community, with everyone doing their part or what they can.

1074 Cabin is an example of this and has shone through in the work that they do. It shines through in the work that Gail has started and her son is continuing.

1075 This is not always the case with other stations. There is a clear lack of education with others, who continue to pronounce words or names incorrectly. Something as simple as Koe or even Nunavut. When Nunavut was first created as a territory, many in Canada pronounced it as “none of it”. I’ll say that again. They pronounced it as “none of it". It became the joke of Canada, because they would say Nunavut has “none of it”. That is unacceptable.

1076 Despite this being pointed out to the station that did that, it continues to take place, and everyone on the airwaves, and is not acceptable and is a clear insult to Inuit as well as Nunavut.

1077 Yesterday you mentioned languages. NWT has 13 official languages. One of them is English. The current FM listeners need to tolerate hearing simple names pronounced wrong, whether place names or last names.

1078 Three years ago, a family had to hear their daughter’s name mispronounced for two entire days after her death. A week later, one of our NWT curlers had to hear the name Koe mispronounced, that he had received his gold medal. These are not hard words.

1079 The names of people being honoured or who have passed away should be given the respect of the simple correct pronunciation. News segments, proper names or place names continues to be mispronounced. Again, this is a clear insult to the people who have passed away or who are receiving this medal.

1080 And when pointed out, there is no effort to correct this issue. Keep in mind that what I’m saying is that this effort has gone on for ten, nine years on my part, as well as many other families or people that I know, including making cheat sheets for them that they don’t use.

1081 Also, the same station are often late with the news as they have to have it vetted in the South, and by the time they air it, it is no longer relevant. It is not useful in the time of an emergency, such as the wildfires or times when there are incidences taking place in Yellowknife. Soon, people will be approaching the organizations that are buying ads to tell those organizations by allowing that mispronunciation of a word simply as Nunavut is a reflection on them.

1082 Attempts to help these stations correct the errors did not help, nor did they listen. To allow this type of discriminatory and insulting practices must stop. If they are not going to listen to the people that come to their door, who will they listen to? It is unacceptable. Real efforts have to be made.

1083 This also includes the practice of allowing religious advertising, as it has traumatic impacts on residential school students, which is something that most of the Northwest Territories took part in. To not understand, this is beyond contemptible and adds to the continued trauma that continues to impact Indigenous people and, by default, the population of the Northwest Territories, half of which lives here in Yellowknife.

1084 Cabin Radio has been first with the news, keeping the NWT informed with current, relevant and well researched news that shows both sides of the news and allows listeners, readers to judge for themselves. Cabin Radio is also culturally relevant and listens to the people and celebrating with the people of Yellowknife or grieving with them, as we all grieved with Gail’s son.

1085 Cabin understands the effects of residential schools and does not advertise religious content on their airwaves. Cabin understands the trauma this brings and respects its listeners.

1086 When community emergencies happened, people in the Northwest Territories turned to Cabin Radio, as they had proven and gained the trust of its stakeholders. People want Cabin to be on the air, and they trust Cabin.

1087 They have even gone above the call of duty and given a place to list places to access help during the wildfires, including a list of Indigenous governments that were offering help to their people, with current phone numbers and emails. This was invaluable for many.

1088 At that time, I was part of the Canadian‑wide Inuit leadership of ITK, or Inuit ‑‑ my mind’s gone blank there; sorry.

1089 Cabin allowed Inuit groups to get names and numbers out quickly, so that impacted Inuit would be able to access funds that otherwise would have meant days and days of trying to locate the right phone number.

1090 From a cultural perspective, all cultures have been respected, must be respected, and Cabin has shown efforts to be culturally safe and respectful. The evacuation was an example of them, and Cabin assisted in gathering information for Indigenous people across ‑‑ that’s a repeat. Sorry.

1091 I could keep going, but as you know, as you are aware, you are aware of everything that has been done, and I’m hoping that this helps in some small way. Just how culturally relevant and safe Cabin Radio is.

1092 You have spoken yesterday about many different aspect of language diversity. The Northwest Territory works differently. We are the standard that the rest of Canada looks at. We are the standard that Canada looks for when it comes to reconciliation. Cabin has already gone above that standard. Qujannamiik. Thank you.

1093 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ms. Sharpe. I think we’re all humbled and honoured to hear about your lineage. Thank you for sharing that with us. We take it at heart and so thank you very much.

1094 I’m now going to turn to our last presenter, Ms. Carmen Braden. I believe we need to congratulate you on your Juno nomination.

‑‑‑ Applaudissements

1095 So congratulations on our behalf. Oh, Cabin baby is not happy.

1096 So please, your five‑minute presentation. Thank you.

Presentation

1097 MS. BRADEN: Thank you very much. And thank you for that. It was a good day. It’s been a good day yesterday.

1098 So yes, thank you for this chance to speak. My name is Carmen Braden. I’m 39, my family has been in Yellowknife since 1964 and I now raise my young family here, and I love radio. I grew up with radio a lot on at home when I was a kid. Actually, this radio, and it still works, and my kids are tall enough now to turn it on, and this is the one we listen to at home every day.

1099 I make my living as a musician I think Cabin Radio has a fantastic musical output, and I think their reporting is pretty incredible. But I don't listen to Cabin Radio’s Internet stream. Why not? Besides the shoddy Internet access, it's because I want to listen to Cabin Radio on FM radio because I use actual radios to listen to radio. Radios in my house, in the car, at my cabin just outside city where we still get reception from Yellowknife.

1100 And there is an FM ecosystem in Yellowknife that is embedded in my house, the houses of my family, and a lot of my friends in my demographic, older and younger.

1101 This is my mother and father's bathroom radio. This is my mother and father's living room radio. This one was my grandmas, for years. I could fill the table. I'm not going to. I want to show my young kids that same expectation of basic access I grew up with, and I want my 70‑year‑old parents to listen using the technology they know how to use. I want to listen to Cabin Radio on these radios.

1102 I know making in the music industry is hard for anyone. I was an emerging artist here, and now I have worked with some of the biggest names in Canada on some of the biggest stages. And yesterday I did get my first Juno nomination. The more doors they are open to artists like me the better off my life as an artist will be.

1103 If we build our listening base in our hometown as wide as possible, we will have a stronger bedrock to build on. If we can't get played or heard where we're from, what hope do we have of make it beyond? And as small business owner, I deal with advertising and marketing. I want business to grow. I want my audience to grow.

1104 I want my music and my local colleagues’ music in people's ears, and I want bums in seats at shows. So I'm looking for one more opportunity to choose who to promote with and to make those choices go the furthest. I want Cabin Radio to be on FM radio so that the FM audience has more chances to hear local music and to hear about shows.

1105 So here are some of the things that I want to show how Cabin Radio goes beyond a bare minimum to support the local artists. I wrote the first ever Cabin Radio theme music, because they wanted their signature sound, the first one, who come from someone from here.

1106 I learned, as to prepare for this discussion, that the CanCon requirements for anyone with Internet radio is zero. Zero percent for Internet radio. And I was a bit shocked to hear that. So Cabin Radio doesn't actually have to play single Canadian northern or Yellowknifer track. Anyone with an FM license I believe it is 35 percent, and Cabin Radio is at 40 percent and it has done so since day one. So from my understanding the could do zero, but they do 40. And they program us throughout the day, every day. Noone else does that here. It’s amazing.

1107 They record and rebroadcast live music performances mostly of local musicians, and this is filling a massive void in my industry. I cannot overstate how important that is to living musicians. And I cannot overstate how much this part of my industry has been decimated, even within my career to date. And I cannot overstate how grateful I am that Cabin Radio does this.

1108 If this is not proof enough that they are committed to the artists of this community I don't know what is. They don't try to make it some special or isolated it on a day. They make us normal and celebrated. So these live performances, the music by a local emerging and established artists would be heard by more people if Cabin Radio was on the FM ecosystem.

1109 Music by my students, music by my colleagues, music by people who are trying to make it in industry, or people who have an established career. I released a song in December called Voice in the Dark. It’s great, look it up. This song is about me talking to a radio host friend of mine whose system went down and I was listening or their voice to come back on. And when I was thinking about this song it was about how we listen across these huge spaces and through dark times, and it makes a difference.

1110 So this song in the last two weeks has been played eight times on Cabin Radio’s Internet stream. I tried to do the math be like, oh, how many times would that have been played since the beginning of Cabin Radio’s time, and I can't do math very well, so I'll let you beautiful math people do that. But imagine if that was on the FM dial?

1111 So to finish I want to say a brief thing in the way I know best about how I feel about radio and, consequently, Cabin Radio.

[singing]
Don't panic when the lights go out
Or when the signal goes down.
Keep talking ‘cause we might come back,
And ‘cause we like the sound.

You're my voice in the dark,
Voice in the dark.
You're my voice in the dark tonight.

Turn on your radio,
Turn on your radio,
Turn on your radio,
‘Cause you're my voice in the dark tonight.

1112 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. I was hoping for a song today, so thank you. And thank you for all the props. I had the same boombox I think, so thank you.

1113 I’m going to turn the table over to my colleague Commissioner Levy for some questions to our distinguished panelists.

1114 Commissioner Levy, please?

1115 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentations. It's always quite fascinating to hear different perspectives and to hear you live and in person. It just adds to the experience.

1116 Ms. Bassi‑Kellett, I'll start with you. You highlighted in your intervention that you had a role as City Manager for some time, and you had your little ups and downs with the journalism from Cabin Radio. In your assessment, how would the municipality of Yellowknife benefit from another radio station?

1117 MS. BASSI‑KELLETT: First of all, if I can say the ups and downs weren't with Cabin, it was with, oh no, this S‑H ‑‑ you know, has hit the fan, and now my day is going to be hijacked with dealing with this. So it wasn't with Cabin, it was with whatever issue was at bay.

1118 The municipality itself, in my time, again I've alerted the city that I'm speaking today, they know that, I wear my hat as a former City Manager. We relied a lot on the media locally to be able to put information out.

1119 ,I will say that cross all orders of government in Canada, the municipal level is the one that is the most transparent by virtue of legislation creations under the constitution provinces and territories laid out. Every decision is made publicly with very few exceptions.

1120 And so this is of interest to the media. And so, there's a lot of media interest in what goes on at the municipal level, and that's great. It's also something that, you know, gets a lot of information out there and it does cause a lot of discourse in community, which is really good.

1121 There are tough issues that are going on at the local level. These things get broadcast, they are then discussion points from sane people and also from the keyboard warriors they're out there wanting to do their own thing. But that's definitely a separate issue.

1122 I think the municipality benefits from the caliber of research that's been done by Cabin. What I personally really value is there will always be some scandal, some issue coming up erupting on social media. I heard that the city is ‑‑ oh God, here we go. Someone’s doing their thing.

1123 And what I really appreciated about Cabin is that this did not immediately become a news story. This was something that again using their professional journalistic approach and their analytical approach to things, they would do the research on these issues before they would become newsworthy, if they would become newsworthy. And that's something that I think great value to people’s information and understanding about what the role of the city was in the issues before the city.

1124 Thanks.

1125 COMMISSIONER LEVY: You’ve been in the community from before Cabin arrived on the scene. What do you ‑‑ what did you see before and how does it contrast? I mean, there’s been local radio here before.

1126 MS. BASSI‑KELLETT: all of a sudden we had a media outlet that was interested in what was going on in the community. Now, I had discussions when I assumed the role of City Manager with all of the then existing media outlets to have an understanding, and build an understanding of what it is that they needed so that the city could be responsive in doing so.

1127 CBC North at the time had said, we will look at city issues if they are relevant the NWT and the circumpolar world. And so that was their lens on things, at the time, I will stress. But they were looking from that perspective. We didn't get as great an intervention with True North as ‑‑ I forgot what they were called at the time ‑‑ I think that’s what their name was. But we had those conversations.

1128 When Cabin came on the scene, Cabin was interested in what was going on locally. And you heard from Tom McLennan earlier, Councillor McLennan around the snow removal issues, snowmageddon as we love to call it. These were issues of relevance for the community that were able to be lifted out of where they were with the municipality and brought to the audience to build an understanding across residence about what the operation of the municipality was looking like.

1129 COMMISSIONER LEVY: What other local news outlets are there? Like, do you have local paper do you have a local anything else in Yellowknife?

1130 MS. BASSI‑KELLETT: Yeah, there are a number of media outlets, there's newspapers, there's radio, there is online. I wouldn't be the best person to list them all off at this point in time, but there are a number of different media that cover certainly local events to differing various stages.

1131 COMMISSIONER LEVY: just trying to fit it into the ecosystem. Of course, the value of radio is its immediacy, especially when you've got wildfires and floods and all the rest of it. Thank you so much.

1132 Ms. Sharpe, I was very taken with your description of, you know, the travels that you've had. So you have a perspective that's sort of worldwide, you've traveled a lot and yet you seem to put a particular emphasis on the value of local. So I'm interested in your perspective. How do you think a new station, new radio station, would have to address some of your dissatisfaction with existing radio in Yellowknife?

1133 MS. SHARPE: Qujannamiik. Thank you for that question. First and foremost, I need to let you know just how important radio is and was to the Inuit way life. Growing up in Gjoa Haven, not everybody had a phone. And it was a very brief time from coming off the land who living in the community at the time. So it had been a very short period of time, probably 10 years that Gjoa Haven had been created going from igloo to build homes at that time.

1134 One way that people kept in touch the same way that they did when they were in a big qaggiq, or big igloo, by sharing stories, it would use CBs. So the CB would be a specific channel in which you would hear stories being told, news events that are happening, calls for help, calls of congratulations between the Inuit community. You were praised in public you were scolded in public. That is the way that it was done.

1135 That turned into CBC Radio in which they would still communicate those stories. And a lot of the communities have a local radio station for that very purpose. Cabin does that.

1136 Community within Northwest Territories and Nunavut is about your community. My community includes people that I know right across Canada. Just to tell you how impacted that is, I spent 23 years in Inuvik as well, both of my children were raised there.

1137 Two years ago, when there was a state of emergency declared because of the number of suicides, I think it was September 2023. At that point Northwest Territories had had 19 suicides. Five of those were males that had spent their entire weekends in my home, and my son at their home. Can you imagine having five of your lifetime friends just gone within the span of six months?

1138 The Northwest Territories and Nunavut are connected by more than just the same community. Right now in Iqaluit they are shut down, the weather is shut down. That impacts me because my job ‑‑ my full‑time job has an office there as well. So from a northern perspective, anything that takes place in Iqaluit impacts us here in yeah nice, and the same in Inuvik. When a plane shuts down here in Yellowknife it impacts all those territories.

1139 We are connected by more than, and Cabin is part of that because of how they view and act culturally. They understand the world that were in right now and there is a balance. So there is that ‑‑ in my presentation I had mentioned not to put all the work ‑‑ or have Indigenous people lead the work of reconciliation. It's about people moving forward, and they understand that, which includes pronouncing words and names correctly. I hope I answered your question.

1140 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Yes, thank you.

1141 Others have talked about the impact that Cabin had during emergencies, and I wonder if there is anything specific to you that you want to talk about, and how Cabin Radio did things differently that had a direct impact on you during some of these emergencies?

1142 MS. SHARPE: It’s definitely had an impact on me because at the time, being ‑‑ having Pauktuutit, as President of Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada, I had a seat at the ITK table. ITK is made up of all four Inuit lands claims organizations, plus the President for ICC, President of Pauktuutit, and the Inuit as well as the Inuit Youth Association for Inuit.

1143 They all wanted to help. So Nunavut Tunngavik had given all Inuit access to $1000 that were part of Nunavut Inuit, the IRC already had something in place that they were able to immediately respond to their membership. There are other Indigenous organizations that needed to do the same.

1144 So you’re now leaving ‑‑ the day that I left Yellowknife, I left ahead of that influx because I was off at that time and I left ahead of that. So that was a 16‑hour drive to get down to Edmonton. By the time I got to High Level the news that Cabin was displaying also told me that it would be a waste of time for me to continue on to Edmonton.

1145 And we had been given other locations that hadn’t ‑‑ that had centres that were open and I ended up going to Leduc and was able to get my immediate family, which was my daughter, her spouse, and my three grandchildren as well as my aunt who is only a year older than I am, her four children and grandchildren, as well as another aunt and her son all hotel rooms in the same place so that we could be together.

1146 One thing that we ‑‑ the Tlicho government was really fortunate that they took chare of all of their people together. They had events running for their people and welcomed others. But they took the lead in making sure that their people, their Tlicho membership was taken care of. ITK as well as other Inuit organizations wanted to do something similar for their own ‑‑ for other Inuit, but it was impossible because we were spread out so far.

1147 So the one thing that could work for us, Cabin did do, which was list the name of who to contact, and phone numbers and emails so that they could have access to $1,000, because many didn’t have money. It had a huge impact. All it took was an email that I sent to Ollie for him to list that there. And it was tremendous help.

1148 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Thank you. That’s the kind of specifics that really put a colour on all of this. Now to Ms. Braden, what do you think having another FM station in Yellowknife would do for local musicians such as yourself?

1149 MS. BRADEN: And if it was Cabin’s? Like, if Cabin Radio got the FM licence, or just any FM licence?

1150 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Another one, yes.

1151 MS. BRADEN: Another one.

1152 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Or and specifically Cabin or another one generally.

1153 MS. BRADEN: Right. So I’m a musician and I want my music to get out as far as possible into as many places as possible. So yes, if there was another radio station here serving the Yellowknife sets of ears, I would love it. Lots of local people would love it as well.

1154 If I had to speak specifically to why I would ‑‑ I would be very excited for Cabin Radio’s specific application to be approved, I think they would do beyond the bare minimum, or beyond. Like, they’ve already proven they’ll go beyond the CanCon requirements to engage with people.

1155 I think it would be a way that local people would see themselves more, more audiences, more demographics who don’t tune in to the internet for whatever reason. Either they don’t have it, they don’t like it, or are trying to get off of it because it's addictive. They would be able to tune into that.

1156 The things that Cabin Radio does with their stations is unlike anything else. So that avenue is so much richer than any other one that is currently out there. And so, this is where I would put lots of eggs in the basket. Whether I’m advertising, or whether I’m pitching a show, or whether I’m trying to bring people live on air, this way of bringing music into peoples lives is for me the strongest way forward that I can see.

1157 The national funding bodies that have funded our CBC, they’ve been cut for years. While I’m really grateful that all the radio stations in Yellowknife have at some point played my music or my colleagues’ music, the front runner has been Cabin Radio. And so for me, having that new FM station which has shown such a clear focus, interest, and passion for Yellowknife music of all kinds, whether it’s the weird stuff I write like the one that’s on my Juno‑nominated album, will rarely get played on radio, much less ones that focus on top 40 hits, or more radio‑friendly songs like my ‘Small Town Song’.

1158 Cabin Radio will talk to me about that. They will play that on the air. They will take risks that musicians need to take as well, and so to have a friend in that is great. To have a ‑‑ like, a private corporate, like, supporter behind us is incredible in an era where I get fractions of a cent on the dollar for streams.

1159 COMMISSIONER LEVY: And what ‑‑ so, you get fractions for streams. So, ‑‑

1160 MS. BRADEN: Like on iTunes, I mean.

1161 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Yes, yes.

1162 MS. BRADEN: Not internet radio.

1163 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Yes. So, I gather that the role that radio plays in promoting Yellowknife’s cultural scene is particularly important?

1164 MS. BRADEN: I feel it is, yes. Whether that’s in having the recorded music played or sharing information about upcoming events, I know for a fact, because I am trying to get more data about how I advertise, where my dollars are going, where do I spend the time and energy on, that when I get interviews on terrestrial radio, FM radio, on shows that the demographic that I know I’m targeting my audience for ‑‑ when we get to talk on air or play live on air, those people show up and pay money to come to our shows. They’ll be the ones that have that kind of interest. And so, yes.

1165 COMMISSIONER LEVY: So, we're talking very locally about cultural events, but as a musician, you obviously want a wider audience. Between Vista and Cabin, Cabin is exclusive to Yellowknife, although on its website it can travel internationally. Vista is part of what is really a national broadcaster with reach across the country. Do you think that having an extra station here might prompt it to do more to promote local artists wherever they are, such as in Yellowknife, to the broader broadcast ecosystem?

1166 MS. BRADEN: That would be a great hope. But if I had to envision the future, if Vista Radio had two radio stations and one of them was this new one that was kind of nascently interested in the local efforts in a bigger way, I feel it would actually confuse people to have these two things, and why one wants to do this one now and is starting to do this work now, whereas the other one has been here for years ‑‑ I know CJCD is, like, FM’s frequency since I was two. That’s probably how I learned the word ‘110.1 FM mix one‑hundred’.

‑‑‑ Rires

1167 MS. BRADEN: But when I was listening to them yesterday, when I was trying to listen in to the stream which was cutting in and out because of the internet, it seemed like they were really interested in their talk about how they wanted to engage and see what people wanted, and for me as a musician, where I have to do so much work already to get my music anywhere, if I would have to do that much more work to tell them or to give them the things ‑‑ if I have to do the work, it might not just be worth my time, whereas I already know the work has been done.

1168 I got an email at 7:30 a.m. this morning asking from Cabin Radio to do an interview about the piece of music that I wrote that’s on this album that was nominated for a Juno, and they have a lot to do this week. So, I think they’re doing the work that I’m so grateful is being done. So, if Vista also had another radio station that wanted to do this, if I look at my own resources, it would just be more work that I might need to do for them to get my music on their new radio station.

1169 COMMISSIONER LEVY: Thank you very much. Those are all of my questions.

1170 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Commissioner Levy.

1171 Perhaps Commissioner Naidoo? No?

1172 Maybe just one last question that I will ask of the three of you is, what about a scenario where the CRCT decides to grant licences for the two radio stations ‑‑ one Vista and one for Cabin Radio? So, what would be the impact? How would that be received by yourselves and by the community?

1173 So, maybe we could start with the last person who spoke, Ms. Braden.

1174 MS. BRADEN: Sure. I think it would be received with some confusion, and also a bit of hesitation as to what this new one ‑‑ what Vista would do with the second one. I myself don’t really feel I understand it very much, and since they have had such a long history and consistency with their one in town, that would ‑‑ I guess I ‑‑ I would be a little surprised about that. I wouldn’t be ‑‑ I would be a little more uncertain about what my engagement should be like with that second station, whereas I know my engagement with the first one.

1175 And I also know my engagement with Cabin Radio, and it just seems, to be honest, like a bit of a no‑brainer and, like, ‘Okay, like, great, split it. What’s ‑‑ what’s the station?’ and to plug it into my phone, or more like my ‑‑ my car buttons. It would just seem like it’s about time. So, those would be my emotional reactions to having both of them on the air.

1176 But again, as a live musician, I want my music everywhere. So, that part of me says, ‘I want 20 ‑‑ I want 20 new FM stations.’

1177 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

1178 Ms. Bassi‑Kellett, same question?

1179 MS. BASSI‑KELLETT: Thanks very much. ‘Confused’ is a really good word that Carmen used. Me, I want to reiterate that the reason I’m here is to speak in favour of Cabin. Cabin’s journalistic integrity, the professionalism they bring to local news, is what I value so much, and I look to them as a source. In regular days, I look to their election coverage, the interviews they do with all candidates in a municipal or a territorial election. It’s that level of awareness that they bring to local issues for everyone that I think is invaluable.

1180 Vista? You know, I hear it sometimes when I go into a shop somewhere; it might be playing in the background. I don’t really understand ‘adult contemporary’ and what that means, if that was part of what they’re saying they’re going to do what they currently do, plus ‘adult contemporary’. That ‑‑ first of all, what’s ‑‑ where do you drawn the line? What would your regular programming be? And the question I guess I have to ask is, why didn’t you already do that? Why are you waiting for something new at the time when Cabin is applying to think you’re going to jump into the field to try to do this new thing?

1181 And so, I wouldn’t ‑‑ I don’t really listen to Vista and I wouldn’t choose to, going forward, just because I wouldn’t understand what their role is in either of those. Thanks.

1182 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

1183 Ms. Sharpe?

1184 MS. SHARPE: On a personal level, if you were to give both licenses, my immediate train of thought was, Okay, how is Vista going to be insulting me this time? What discriminatory practices will they air? How triggered will I be when they continue to advertise religious organizations? This is a company that’s already proven they don’t mind insulting people of the Northwest Territories or Nunavut. This is a company that has already done so repeatedly, daily, on the airways despite multiple, multiple people highlighting this to them ‑‑ with no change.

1185 The professional side of me says, if you give both of them a licence, most people are still going to be going to Cabin Radio because people trust Cabin Radio.

1186 On a personal level, don’t. I don’t want to be insulted on the land where I was born that has a population base of 48 percent Indigenous, which is the majority. They don’t care. Their insulting language and disrespect towards events that are taking place is plain and simple. The majority of people that know how to make a difference in that can’t say it because they may not be Indigenous. I can say it. I am saying it. They are discriminatory and insulting.

1187 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

1188 Thank you to all three for your presentations and your answers. This is the type of information that we love to have. It goes directly on the public record and it’s used in our decision‑making capacity, so we appreciate your generosity. Thank you very much. Safe travels.

1189 And then we’ll move to the last intervenor this morning. So, I will be calling ‑‑ I have the name ‑‑ Mr. Jeff Kinkaid from the Yellowknife Direct Charge Co‑operative Limited. If you could please come to the table in front, and we’ll go directly into this last conversation before we take a lunch break.

1190 Madam Secretary?

1191 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.

1192 Alright. Please introduce yourself, and you will then have five minutes to make your presentation. Thank you.

Presentation

1193 MR. KINCAID: Good morning. Thank you to the community for having me here, to everybody that’s in attendance.

1194 My name’s Jeff Kincaid. I’m with the Yellowknife Direct Charge Co‑operative. We are a business here in Yellowknife that was founded in 1981. We are a co‑operative, so we are owned by members of this community. In a town of approximately 20,000 people, we currently have over 9,000 members. So, that’s a large portion of the community that is owners of our business. So, we’re not just located in the community; we are owned by the people of this community.

1195 But we’re more than just a grocery store. We are part of something bigger ‑‑ a shared commitment to supporting Yellowknife and making sure that nobody’s left behind. Food security is one of the biggest challenges that we face, not only in Yellowknife but in these past several years we’ve seen issues raised across the Territories, across Canada, and in much of the world as things become harder and harder on families to get by. So, food security is one of the main focusses of the Yellowknife Co‑op. It’s where we are committed to doing our part, and not just through food donations, but by partnering with local organizations that make a real impact.

1196 That’s why today we want to take a moment to recognize True North FM. They have been cohosts and partners with us on a food drive initiative in Yellowknife for over 25 years. During that time, they have promoted this event throughout the community, but they don’t just promote it; they actually take an active part. They come into the store; they’re on site; they’re selling the bags or raising donations; they’re organizing volunteers to pack the hampers; and they are a true partner in this event that’s been going on for a very long time. Through this partnership, we’ve raised thousands of pounds of food that we’ve donated to food banks, to the Salvation Army, and to those people in need, typically during the holiday times when it’s hardest on families.

1197 They’ve helped throughout community to spread awareness and turn a simple event into something that truly impacts the lives of those facing food insecurity. The ‘Stuff the Bus’ food drive is one of the initiatives every year where we see firsthand the generosity of this community as carts fill up with donations for those in need, and thanks to True North, the message reaches even further. They help spread the word, encourage people to give, and bring energy and excitement to an event that is all about giving back.

1198 They don’t just report on us as an entity in the community; they work with us. They are actively in the store. They bring volunteers to stock the bags, to raise the volunteers. They’re talking to our members, and they’re promoting our businesses as they see us as a partner in solving some of these problems that we are experiencing in the community.

1199 By cohosting ‘Stuff the Bus’, they go beyond just airing ads or announcements. They’re on the ground with us, rallying the community, creating excitement, and making sure as many people as possible step up to help. Their presence does make a difference, not just in getting donations, but in keeping the conversation going about food insecurity and the role that we all play in supporting our neighbours, and that’s what our community, especially our co‑operative, is all about. They show up every year to support us when we need them, and we would like to be here to support them when they ask.

1200 Thank you.

1201 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Kincaid.

1202 I will turn it over to my colleague, Commissioner Naidoo, for a series of questions.

1203 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Thank you so much for being here today and for your intervention. In your intervention, you mentioned that the Yellowknife Co‑op partners with Vista for the annual ‘Stuff the Bus’ food drive initiative. I’m wondering if you can flesh out a little bit more what their role ‑‑ what their involvement is with that particular initiative. I’m looking for stuff like, are they offering you promotion? Are they offering you donations? Are they ‑‑ you know, how are they helping you specifically?

1204 MR. KINCAID: Excuse me. Yeah, they've been a great partner with us at this event. So, typically what they’ll do is they’ll arrange ‑‑ behind the scenes, they’ll arrange all the volunteers on that side to come in and pack. Typically, this year, we packed 600 hampers. So, that’s a lot of hours of work that needed to get done that, if we had to use employee hours, we’re funding that, that’s going to put a lot more stress on those donations price‑wise.

1205 So, by them organizing volunteers coming in and getting all that done essentially for free for us, that allows us to get more product into actually the hands of the people that need it. They also then promote the event on their own dime. We don’t pay for their promotion of the event for that. So, they handle of that, and then they’re in store that day, greeting members, shaking hands, and promoting that event as well.

1206 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Do you have any other partnerships with any other radio stations ‑‑ FM stations in the community?

1207 MR. KINCAID: In a small community, we advertise through all available means. We do. We use all sources. So, we’ll advertise with Cabin Radio, of course, and with the newspaper, and with True North FM as well, yeah.

1208 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Can you provide examples for us of how Vista has shown support for local businesses and initiatives ‑‑ what types of initiatives? I mean, remember, we don’t live in the community, so you’re our eyes and ears on the ground. What type of fundraisers, what is its role when it comes to those fundraisers ‑‑ whatever pops into your mind.

1209 MR. KINCAID: I don't want to speak on, you know, th

1210 relationship that they have with other businesses, but I know for us, anytime we ‑‑ we like to get out into the community and to do things, like, live with our own people there. So, rather just donating, the Co‑op will show up and partake in the event if we’re doing something. Anytime we do something like that where the Co‑op is going to go out, True North has always come up to promote that for us. That helps us get our message out there. It shows us being a part of the community. So, that is really valuable to us as a business, in terms of getting the word out of how we are out in the community, as well.

1211 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: And are they providing outreach to the community for you, I guess in the promotion, maybe?

1212 MR. KINCAID: Probably in the promotion, yes. Yeah.

1213 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: Okay. What do you think in your words would be the benefit of allowing Vista a second licence for a radio station in the market?

1214 MR. KINCAID: Well, as we heard earlier, and it’s a general ‑‑ you know, as a civilization we kind of talk about the more voices, the better. There are lots of cultural lenses that we need to see things through. There’s lots of reasons why more conversation, more talk is better. And so, the benefit to the community of having additional voices is a benefit. I don’t see how limiting that would be a benefit. That would be the only non‑benefit to the community, would be to limit who is allowed to speak.

1215 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: All right, thank you. This is my last question, and I ask it because I like to be fair and consistent, as everybody does. If two licences were handed out, do you have an opinion as to how that would affect the community, or your business, or what the impact would be?

1216 MR. KINCAID: Along the same lines as we were just speaking. If more voices and more opinions are of benefit to the community, then ‑‑ I think that more opinions and more voices would be a benefit to the community. There are ‑‑ obviously, once you get onto the FM waves, there’s rules around that as well, and restrictions on that. So, there’s lots of different personalities, there’s lots of room for everybody.

1217 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: All right. Mr. Kincaid, thank you so much for being here today. Appreciate it.

1218 That’s all I have.

1219 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Commissioner Naidoo.

1220 I’m looking at my colleague ‑‑ Commissioner Levy, if you have additional questions?

1221 And I don’t have any additional questions, so thank you very much for taking the time to come and speak with us, and I bid you safe travels. Thank you so much.

1222 So, this concludes the morning session of the hearing. We will take a lunch break and we will reconvene at 1:30. Thank you, everyone.

‑‑‑ Suspension à 11 h 54

‑‑‑ Reprise à 13 h 30

1223 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back. I hope you had a good lunch. We did, I thank.

1224 So, I thank we’ve come to the last phase of this two‑day hearing. We’ll take the opportunity to thank everyone again for their participation, their presence. It makes a huge difference when we can actually see faces and engage directly with the people involved or impacted by the decision the CRTC makes.

1225 So, I am going to turn it over quickly, perhaps one last time, to our dear Hearing Secretary for some housekeeping and some information with respect to Phase IV.

1226 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. So, we will now proceed with Phase IV of the hearing, during which the applicants can reply to all interventions, which can be followed by questions from the panel. We will start with the reply from Vista Radio Limited.

1227 Please re‑introduce yourself for the record, and you will then have 15 minutes to make your presentation. Thank you.

Reply

1228 MR. GABOR: Thank you. Good morning, Vice‑Chair Théberge, Commissioners Levy and Naidoo, and Staff. It’s a pleasure to be here with you again today. I’m sorry to hear you’re not feeling well. I’m starting to feel it as well. It’s coming along. I’m glad we’ll be going home.

1229 Before I begin, on behalf of all of us at Vista Radio, we want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedules to travel to Yellowknife so that we could hold this very important hearing in the community that is at the heart of our discussions.

1230 A very special thanks to all the Commission staff, for what is clearly a very challenging task to pull off an event like this, and to do it so exceptionally well was a pleasure for us to be a part of.

1231 I’ll do our best to be brief with our comments today, and then of course if the Commission has any further questions for us, let us know.

1232 We wanted to recognize those who submitted letters of intervention opposing our application, and especially anyone who appeared today to speak in person.

1233 We submitted a written reply to the Commission in October, with a copy to the nine individuals who filed interventions opposing our application and who, of course, as required by the CRTC rules of procedure, we provided them with a copy of the intervention as well.

1234 While we certainly do not agree with all that has been brought forward, we do want to reiterate that Vista Radio has a long and meaningful history here in Yellowknife, and what keeps us all going is that we have a passion for local radio and the communities that we live and work in. We’re not perfect, but we are always looking to learn and get better. If you are not a fan of ours today, we certainly hope you will give us a chance to change that.

1235 While I do believe we addressed most if not all of the same topics brought up today of concern that were either in a presentation yesterday or in responding to your questions, we do feel it’s important to reiterate a few important points because they were reintroduced in this morning’s session.

1236 To Ms. Sharpe, thank you very much for bringing some very important issues to my direct attention. I can assure you that we will deal with them. We take these concerns very seriously and I want to clarify that we deeply respect and value the Indigenous populations. Our stations always strive to be inclusive, culturally sensitive, and open to feedback from all communities. In fact, we actively seek input and are committed to being a platform that fosters understanding and respect for all cultures. It goes without saying that we are willing to listen and work collaboratively to improve, and we encourage continued dialogue to ensure that our programming reflects and honors the diverse communities we serve.

1237 We are not outsiders. We are a longstanding Northern broadcaster with deep community involvement. We’ve served Yellowknife and the North for over 20 years, employing local journalists ‑‑ including many of our media colleagues working now with Cabin Radio ‑‑ supporting local businesses, and covering the stories that matter to the community.

1238 Vista is committed to local talent development. We invest in training, hiring, and retaining our Northern broadcasters.

1239 As you heard from Vista’s new Director of News, John White, his team is directed to deliver verifiable, responsible, and factual local news. We operate within the highest standards and guidelines as set out by all the recognized bodies including the CRTC, Canadian Broadcast Standards Council, the RTDNA, and as I believe Commissioner Naidoo inquired yesterday, we hold ourselves to the highest standards within Vista in regard to our hiring practices, and closely adhere to the Government’s Employment Equity Act.

1240 Vista Radio is deeply embedded in the North and has been for years. Our news coverage is tailored to the unique challenges and concerns of the region. We have continuously invested in resources, reporters, and partnerships to ensure the North’s stories are told.

1241 In fact, as it pertains to news on CJCD, we are currently in fact looking to add another journalist to our team in Yellowknife, and John has let me know that he has recently been in touch with the NJTI and is looking forward to a dialogue with them to work together to find a suitable candidate to fill that role from right here within Yellowknife.

1242 Once again, I would reiterate that if our goal is more Northern coverage, then we should diligently be discussing collaboration instead of competition. I've directed our team to do that proactively, and I'm confident we'll see some of those initiatives in place soon.

1243 Vista Radio is proud to support northern Indigenous artists. We've consistently featured local musicians and our programming already meets and often exceeds CRTC requirements. I'd like to be on the record stating our support for local talent, like Carmen Braden who appeared today. It's unwavering, and we appreciate how difficult it is to have a career as a musician or a performer in the territories. We don't want to see talent leave the North for opportunity. We want to be part of creating and maintaining the opportunity where they live.

1244 We're currently and actively part of advising the CRTC's Indigenous music policy to ensure that music is not just heard in one small market but across the nation. We're committed to maintaining a stable, established platform that ensures consistent exposure for local artists, and we're proud of the impact that we've had in helping to develop artists like Carmen and provide opportunities for artists in Yellowknife and the North. And you have my commitment that we will continue to do so. We do believe that what we bring to this community and its local and Indigenous artists as being worth the effort.

1245 In closing, we want to thank all the members of the public who appeared today to speak to the Commission. Again, while we may not agree with all the statements made and the information shared, we stand by our long and meaningful history here in Yellowknife and reiterate that everyone at Vista has a passion for local radio in the communities we live and work. We're not perfect, and we always look to learn and do better.

1246 Sorry, I think it came back to my page.

1247 We would like to thank Jeff and the Yellowknife Co‑op for appearing today. We're so lucky to have them as an amazing partner with CJCD for over 25 years of our annual Stuff the Bus initiative, which provides food for the foodbank, the Salvation Army, and others who need support in the community.

1248 A special thanks from our team in Yellowknife and from all of us at Vista to the many people and organizations who wrote in support of our application, including government officials, whose letters were filed with our application and were submitted directly to the Commission. We would never achieve what we have in Yellowknife over these many years without their support, and you have my commitment that we'll continue to work diligently to earn that support into the future.

1249 That's all from the Vista Radio team. Thank you.

1250 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Edwards, and thank you to your entire team for showing up and demonstrating openness and frankness in your replies and also for the quality of your interventions and the quality of the submissions and all the information that you provided the Commission. This is what we need. This is what we require to be able to make an informed decision, so I thank you.

1251 I will turn quickly to my colleagues to see if you have any additional question.

1252 Thank you again. We appreciate again you being here, and we wish you good luck in your future endeavours, and safe travels, even if you don't need to go very far. And good luck with the cold.

1253 MR. GABOR: Thank you very much.

1254 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much.

1255 We will now be moving to our second presentation from Cabin Radio. So I will ask its representative to step up to the plate, and we'll ask the hearing secretary whether she wants to add something.

1256 THE SECRETARY: Once you're all ready, you can reintroduce yourself for the record, and then you will have 15 minutes to make your presentation. Thank you.

1257 MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you very much, Madam Chair, Commissioners, Commission staff. I'll very quick go through introductions. I'm Ollie Williams, editor and co‑owner at Cabin Radio; to my left, Andrew Goodwin, general manager, co‑owner, Cabin Radio; to his left, Scott Letkeman, program director, co‑owner, Cabin Radio; and to my right, Jesse Wheeler, morning show host and co‑owner, Cabin Radio.

Reply

1258 MR. WILLIAMS: Look, Madam Chair, Commissioners, Commission staff, we've waited six years for this. We would like to thank you so much for giving us the chance to present to you over the past couple of days. It's been our privilege to have you here and to be able to share our application with all of you and with everybody watching and listening online as well.

1259 I'd like to thank the thousands of people who have supported us to this point, the hundreds who wrote letters of support, the hundreds more who intervened, and especially those intervenors who appeared in person today. You have set out more compellingly than we ever could the service that we already provide, the value of that service, and the value of having that service on FM.

1260 The intervention of the Yellowknife Co‑op confirms our message to the Commission that the market is already supporting both applicants. The Co‑op is one of Cabin Radio's biggest clients. They hold a gold membership with us, which is one of our highest‑value relationships, worth tens of thousands each year. They run broadcast audio ads with us that would carry over to FM. We have run live broadcasts in‑store with them.

1261 The fact that the Co‑op is here today describing a positive relationship with Vista Radio speaks exactly to the ability of Cabin Radio and Vista Radio to draw from this market. As Jeff Kincaid told the Commission, there's lots of room for everybody.

1262 And as Gerri Sharpe told us so eloquently and powerfully, we can be trusted to serve Yellowknife, Ndilo, and Dettah in a culturally safe manner.

1263 Cabin Radio exists to support maximum standards. The Commission may have seen applicants over the years where minimum standards were needed to guarantee a public benefit. This is not that application. For seven years, we have employed maximum standards. We guarantee six hundred minutes of spoken word. In practice, we will never get that low, largely because of Jesse, but also because of all the other programming we're going to bring to this. I recognize that's easy to say, but it's backed up on the record. By their hundreds, in their own words, people have endorsed the consistency with which we over‑deliver and exceed expectations, COVID‑19 and the wildfires being just two obvious examples.

1264 As Carmen Braden said today, we go beyond the bare minimum. We've given you the bare minimum, that's in the application. And to be clear, we are proud of the bare minimum. We're happy to be judged on it. But we are here with the support we have and the revenue we have because we keep exceeding expectations. That is why so many people support Cabin Radio on FM. They know they are not getting the minimum standard. They want the maximum standard, and they want it on FM.

1265 I'd like to wish safe travels home to you Madam Chair, Commissioners, Commission staff, Vista Radio. I hope you get well soon at the same time. Stay in Yellowknife for a few days, you know. Sit back, relax. We've got northern lights ‑‑ it's great. Stay 'til March, because March is really nice here.

1266 I just want to say it's been an opportunity six years in the making to be able to do this. We're thrilled that we were able to do it, and we hope to make the Commission proud as a licensed operator for many years to come. Thank you, and we'll take any further questions.

1267 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. We may have to stay in Yellowknife. There's a major snowstorm in Quebec and Toronto, so I don't know, maybe we'll never leave.

1268 Thank you so much. Thank you for your presentation. Thank you also for the quality of your interventions. You came here very well supported. You got a song, got a baby, got a whole bunch of things, props. But thank you. Thank you. I think you provided quality answers, informed answers to our questions, and that makes our job easier.

1269 I believe there's an undertaking. You are aware of the deadline to provide that information. I believe it's February 20th. So we look forward to receiving that information.

1270 That's correct, yes?

1271 SAMUEL BEAUMIER: It's already received.

1272 THE CHAIRPERSON: It's already ‑‑ well, there you go, it's already received. Check.

1273 I'll turn quickly to my colleagues if they've got additional questions.

1274 COMMISSIONER NAIDOO: I have nothing. I just wanted to say thank you for appearing before us and for all the information in your submissions that we've had the opportunity to review. Thank you.

1275 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Levy? Thank you again very much.

1276 So Madam Secretary, I think this concludes our hearing.

1277 Je tiens à remercier encore une fois tout le monde de s’être joint à nous hier et aujourd’hui. Over the last two days, we've heard from two applicants wishing to establish new radio stations in Yellowknife ‑‑ beautiful Yellowknife. I was very excited to be here, so thank you to everyone for making my stay memorable.

1278 We would like to thank each of the applicants for their eagerness to provide a new radio service to benefit this very enthusiastic community and for the time and resources that they have invested throughout this process before the hearing, during the hearing, probably after the hearing as well.

1279 I want to thank the members of the Yellowknife community who took time out of their day to join us to make their voices heard. That makes a big difference. We know how much work is required to take part in these hearings. We're very appreciative of your efforts. We try to make this as uncomplicated and as informal as possible, recognizing that with a hearing comes a certain level of formality. I do wish we were not too intimidating to you all.

1280 As I mentioned at the start of our hearing yesterday, the CRTC works in the public interest, and we build broad public records before we make any decision. That's how we operate. And all the presentations we've heard over the past two days, they now form part of the public record upon which the CRTC will base its decision. This process and your participation is critical to ensuring our decisions take into account the perspectives of those who will be impacted by them. That includes the people in this room. In practical terms, that means evaluating which proposal is best‑positioned to serve the Yellowknife radio market and the local community.

1281 I would also like to offer our gratitude to our stenographer, who has made sure everything that has been said is accurately recorded and placed on the transcript. And to those that provide translation services, interpretation in the box over there, thank you so much ‑‑ invaluable ‑‑ to the IT and technical staff in the back, and of course the hotel staff who have hosted us this week.

1282 I want of course on behalf of my Commissioner colleagues to thank, acknowledge, and express appreciation to the CRTC staff for their diligence in preparing for this hearing. This is a small number of people. There are a lot more involved, and they all work with one goal in mind: promoting and preserving the public interest and the integrity of this particular judicial process. So I thank them all for their support.

1283 And I would like to thank my fellow Panel members, my friends and colleagues Commissioner Naidoo and Commissioner Levy, for your hard work, your excellent preparation and dedication.

1284 J’ai hâte de poursuivre nos discussions au cours des prochains jours et des prochaines semaines alors que nous allons analyser le dossier de cette instance et travaillerons à la décision finale.

1285 So on that note, Madam Secretary, I will now bring this hearing to a close. Wherever your travels home take you after you leave the hearing room, please accept our best wishes for a safe, speedy trip, and hopefully we won't get stuck somewhere because of a snowstorm. Thank you so much.

‑‑‑ L'audience se termine à 13 h 49

Sténographes
Benjamin Lafrance
Monique Mahoney
Lynda Johansson
Tania Mahoney
Brian Denton